Giulia Super disc brake info

From: Simon Favre  <favres@engmail.ulinear.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 15:46:21 PDT
Subject: Re: Giulia Super disc brake conversion

Peter G. Cole wrote:

>I have an early Giulia Super with a Dunlop disc brake system. I read in
>one of the digests recently about Volvo brakes being used for one of the
>later Alfas. I am wondering whether any readers of the digest have had
>an experience with adapting brakes for the Giulia. I have never been
>impressed with the Dunlops and parts are now becoming hard to source, at
>least here in Australia.

As I see it, you do have a few options, sort of like the Stage 1, Stage 2, etc. heads from Sperry. ;=)

Stage 1) The simplest way to update, if not upgrade the brakes on a Giulia would be to bolt on the whole front suspension from a much later car of the same 105/115 family, like a Spider. On some of the real early 105's there is apparently a difference in the way the lower A-arm spindle bolts to the crossmember, but I believe you can use the old spindle with the new arms. (editor's NOTE: the later LOWER ARMS (4 bolt) will NOT fit on the early cars (2-bolt), but the later SPINDLE should connect, at the ball joints, to the early arms - jack) What this gets you is relatively recent hardware with readily available parts. (me again... this is mildly put, as the front Ate rotors for the early Supers (and other 105 cars) are NLA (No Longer Available) and WILL keep your car from passing MOT or US safety inspection, etc. Either stockpile some used rotors or plan on doing this conversion sooner or later. jack) The stopping power may only be slightly better. You could add slotted rotors, as they are available. Assorted special pads are also available. Lots of choices here. I have not heard of an alternate caliper for the later 105/115 cars.

Stage 2) If you are using wide wheels and tires, you can drastically increase the stopping power by using the Brembo Aluminum calipers from the GTV6/Milano (aka Alfa 75) family. This is somewhat complicated, as you have to have EXACTLY the right uprights for the caliper to fit (late 67 105 series, or any Junior), AND you have to have custom machined rotors and special rotor "hats" made from a 2 liter front rotor. There are race shops that do custom rotors all day long, so once you find a supplier, this makes the special rotor a replaceable item too. The hat that the rotor bolts to should last forever. Caliper parts and special pads are available.

Stage 3) If you are really serious about this, take Stage 2 above and substitute the Volvo 4-piston caliper for the 2-piston Brembo. The details were discussed in previous Digests. You will still need special rotors, and the correct uprights, as the GTV6/Milano and Volvo have the same caliper mounting bolt spacing as the early 105s.

I did Stage 2 on a 67 GTV with great results. The rotors are vented, not slotted, which makes them run quite cool. I have NOT been able to make these things fade, even with fairly ordinary pads. No rebalancing of the rear brakes was necessary with decent tires. With stock tires, this would result in the car having too much braking power. I run 195/60-15 Yokohamas. I got my rotors from Coleman Machine in the US, but there must be suppliers in Oz.

The guys putting the Volvo calipers on their car are going racing. I found the combination of modern rubber and Brembo calipers quite enough for a street machine that goes to the track maybe once a year.

... and some expert advice from some racers in South Africa (and the racers ought to know what works!) mvcoller@fnb.co.za
Hi Jack
My name is Malcolm van Coller from Johannesburg in South Africa. There are about 6 of us who race the 105 series cars in Historic Racing here in Johannesburg, and found the best was to fit the front hubs off the later 105 series and then use the ATE cilipers off the 520,525,530,535,725,728.730,733,735 or 745 BMW.

These calipers must be split to remove the spacer for the vented disc (Rotor) and can then just be bolted on. Then a T piece must be fitted to split the fluid line in two. Short pipes must be made up for the sections between the T piece and the two inputs into the calipers.

This works equally well on and off the track and improves the brakes drastically and has no negative side effects.

Regards.
Malcolm

... and a quick response from Malcolm to my request for details..

LOOK FOR THE CAPITALS - THAT WILL BE MY RESPONSE :
> > Thanks for your input, I'll add it to my brakes page.... and probably start
> looking for those calipers in my local junkyard. A few clarifications if
> you don't mind: > > - do you use the stock mount for the end of the brake hose and then split
> the hard lines for the 2 halves of the caliper?
YES - IN FACT WE USE THE STANDARD REAR AXLE 'T' PIECE. THE RUBBER PIPE SCREWS INTO THAT, AND WE HAVE TWO SHORT STEEL PIPES MADE UP BETWEEN THE CALIPER AND THE 'T' PIECE. THE MOUNTING HOLE THROUGH IT CAN THEN BE USED FOR MOUNTING IT TO A HOME MADE BRACKCET WHICH IN TURN CAN THEN BE MOUNTED TO THE SAME BOLTS THAT HOLD THE CALIPER.
> - do you then use the standard 105/115 front rotor or did you need to
> use shims or custom rotors, etc.?
STOCK STANDARD, IT JUST BOLTS ON. JUST REMEMBER TO SPLIT THE CALIPER AND REMOVE THE SPACER AS USED IN THE BMW VENTED ROTOR APPLICATION. ALSO REMEMBER, THIS CAN ONLY BE USED AS IS ON THE LATER 105/115 (GTV AND BERLINAS)CARS THAT TAKE THE D112 BRAKE PADS.
> - do you add a variable proportioning valve to get front/rear balance?
NO, NO VALVE IS ADDED.
> ..or just do more braking on the front? I had a minor problem in another
> Super when I swapped rear axles with a later car (which had larger
> rear calipers) and got reduced stopping power due to premature lockup
> on the rears ( but I heard the tire smoke was fun to watch at the end of
> the front straight.. and I do love to give a good show! <g>)
NO, WE HAVE NOT HAD ANY OF THE ABOVE PROBLEMS, ALTHOUGH WE MAY HAVE HAD MORE FRONT BRAKING THAT WE SHOULD HAVE HAD, PROPORTIONALLY THAT IS, BUT IN EIGHT YEARS OF RACING IT LIKE THAT WE CAN ONLY GIVE YOU POSITIVE FEEDBACK.
> - any suggestions on reinforcements needed due to increased
> suspension loading? or other bits from the later cars that should also be
> swapped in?
SAME COMMENT AS FOR THE ABOVE
> > Thanks again for your knowledge. I don't expect to ever make it to SA,
> but, you never know... I may someday get a chance to see you run!!
HEY, COME OUT HERE AND SEE WHAT WE HAVE HERE. THERE ARE MORE THAN 68,000 ALFAs REGISTERED HERE AND MANY MORE IN BREAKERS YARDS. WE HAD THE ONLY FACTORY OUTSIDE ITALY TO BUILD ALFAS HERE IN SA.

AND ABOVE ALL IT IS SO CHEAP HERE FOR YOU... US$ 1.00 = ZAR 4.88. ONE ZAR CAN BUY YOU ABOUT THE SAME AS US$0.50 ....MALCOLM

Subject:  Re: big discs on Giulia
         Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 12:13:34 +0200
        From: "Mika Tamminen" <mickey@netti.fi>
 Organization:  SAUNALAHDEN SERVERIN asiakas
  Newsgroups: alt.autos.alfa-romeo
   References 1

Christian B kirjoitti viestissä <8a3ioo$21he$1@buty.wanadoo.nl>...
>Hi group ! Does anyone knows an easy way to fit big (vented) disc on a 1970
>Giulia
>I use one in rally but even with air cope and special fluid pedal begin to
>be spongious after 10 miles of hard driving -
Does the rules give you slack??

If they do go with this....Use a Jaguar 295x22.3 mm vented disc and Volvo
240 Girling Calipers for vented rotors..the Calipers bolt right on a Giulia
1600 Spindle and you can use a Jag disc. you must fabricate an adapter
yourself thou and it can be made of aluminium...hope this Helps...
>
>

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